March 12, 2025 # Book Club: Crucial Conversations with Mark Brower [Mark Brower](https://www.secondnature.com/podcast/author/mark-brower) Owner - Mark Brower Properties & Triple Win Mentor - Second Nature Click for sound When asked if he had one book all property management professionals should read, Mark Brower, Broker/Owner at [Mark Brower Properties](http://markrent.com/), didn't hesitate. Property management is a business full of crucial conversations—interactions where stakes and emotions both run high. Hear Mark's breakdown of the book and why he says it's a must-read for property managers. _Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When the Stakes are High_ is written by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, Al Switzler, and Ron McMillan, and published by McGraw-Hill. **Laura MacMinn** Hello, professional property managers, and welcome to a special book club episode of the Triple Win Property Management Podcast. I'm your host, Laura Mac. Today, we're going to be speaking with the exceptional Mark Brower, owner Mark Brower Properties out of Mesa, Arizona. Welcome to the podcast, Mark, and thanks for being here today. **Mark Brower** I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me, Laura. **Laura MacMinn** You are my favorite. Some of our listeners might not have had the pleasure of meeting you yet. And for those people and for just a refresh for our friends, could you remind all of us, a little bit about who you are? I would love to invite you to share what makes you tick and how you found yourself in the property management industry. **Mark Brower** Absolutely. Thanks for the opportunity. So what makes me tick is I think we were all sent to this spinning blue ball that's hurtling through space at a million miles an hour with gifts, and we're supposed to find out what those gifts are and use them in the service of others. And so I consider myself fully engaged with that journey in life where trying to figure out what makes me tick, and then every time I figure it out, just use that in the service of somebody else. **Laura MacMinn** That's beautiful. And, share a little bit with us about how you came to be a property manager. **Mark Brower** Certainly. So, I originally was making a living in commercial real estate. The markets were volatile, and I was starting a family, and I wanted some more stability. So my wife and I had moved a few times and kept the old house as a rental. We'd self-managed and then hired a property manager, had a poor experience, and then decided, hey, we're gonna build a business around this because even though it's not glamorous, it could be really stable. That could be a good thing for the family. **Mark Brower** The book I picked is Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler. This book is incredible. It changed my life not only professionally, but also personally. And I think it is a must read for everyone in property management. **Laura MacMinn** If you think back to when you first read the book, why did you connect with it at that particular time? **Mark Brower** This book had a really powerful impact on me because, something that's true in my life is I'll be experiencing life and I'll be stubbing my toe in ways that I don't fully understand. And then someone will come along, a teacher, mentor, or I'll read a book, and suddenly it'll shift my mindset and I'll see everything with more clarity. And that definitely happened with this book. I was moving in and out of crucial conversations in my life, personal and professional life, without really understanding what they were and how to handle them skillfully. And this book shed light on that, and changed everything for me. **Laura MacMinn** That’s fantastic. Why would you say this book is particularly relevant to property management? **Mark Brower** A crucial conversation is when two people are engaged in a dialogue where the stakes are high and emotions run high. So with high stakes and high emotions, that never happens in property management, right? Obviously kidding. So the residents are living in a home that's a sacred place to them. It's also the largest bill they pay each month, and if they don't pay it, they get evicted from their home. Stakes are high. Most landlords are small investors that this home represents a good chunk of their net worth, and it's high value to them and also high risk. If they have an impact to their cash flow, it's significant. Stakes are high, emotions run high. And in fact, I believe it's one of the reasons owners engage with professional property management is because of those high stakes and high emotions. So a property manager that understands not only how to identify and see a crucial conversation coming, but navigate through that conversation with high effectiveness is a tremendously powerful ally for a homeowner. **Mark Brower** I believe in life, we have a very small circle of control, but we have a much larger circle of influence. And one of the primary goals in life is to increase our influence. If we can use the principles in crucial conversation, principles like start with a heart, get our emotions and our heart in the right place, making sure we're not assuming negative motive and intent for the other party, making sure that we master our own story first before engaging in dialogue. Those types of skills gain influence. I can gain influence with people in my organization, my employees, my team members, and I can gain more influence with the property management clients that we serve because of these principles that help gain influence. **Mark Brower** So I think the number one takeaway is don't ever engage in a conversation with someone else until you truly sincerely in the depth of your heart have utter and total respect for them. You can't fake that, and it comes through in the conversation, and you lose trust and you lose influence. So that's the most important principle. And then I think beyond that, it's making it safe for the other person. Recognizing that they are also potentially emotionally hijacked because of the high stakes and the high emotions, and skillfully helping them see that your motive and intent aligns with their interest, their long term interest, that you are not a threat. So establishing that mutual respect and mutual purpose is critical, and the book teaches beautifully how to make that happen. **Mark Brower** Awesome. Look forward to it.